Advanced

Following Bill Gates' Linux Attack Money

Posted by tadelste on · 106 comments
LXer; By Tom Adelstein
Mail this story
Print this story

Recently, we witnessed the power of Microsoft's political machine when one of the champions of free and open source software, Peter Quinn resigned as CIO of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. In my opinion, Microsoft just blinked and everything went south. Other writers have also commented on the chain of events in Massachusetts. For example, Andy Undegrove writes a farewell piece in his blog to the maligned public servant. Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols also writes an article about this issue in Microsoft Wins, Open Standards Lose. Steven writes: "CIO Peter Quinn's story tells us that if you go up against Microsoft, you can expect everything and the kitchen sink to be thrown at you."

Well Steven, as much respect and admiration as I have for you, Microsoft didn't even breathe hard. They looked in the direction of bean town and people started doing their bidding. That's what happens when you own a country.

One of the top stories of the year at LXer warned mightily of Microsoft's capabilities. So, I brought it back out and rewrote it. It you don't get it this time, you never will.

Anyone doubting the power of Microsoft, should consider what we said at the end of June 2005. We've also added the preceding article to this text - and made some changes. But the documents we uncovered are still in place. The people within Microsoft's grasp politically are still listed. This isn't a story you scan. This is one you read.

The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That in its essence, is Fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group or by any controlling private power.

In a letter to the Department of Justice addressing Microsoft's Proposed Final Judgment in their anti-trust case, a well-known consumer advocate wrote:





"The agreement should require that this information (interoperability) be as freely available as possible, with a high burden on Microsoft to justify secrecy. Indeed, there is ample evidence that Microsoft is focused on strategies to cripple the free software movement, which it publicly considers an important competitive threat. This is particularly true for software developed under the GNU Public License (GPL), which is used in GNU/Linux, the most important rival to Microsoft in the server market."(1)





In the same letter he writes, "One of Microsoft's high-level executives says (published) that freely distributed software code such as Linux could stifle innovation and that legislators need to understand the threat."



Little doubt exists that Microsoft has reached legislators. In an earlier article added to this one below, we discussed how a dispute in the House Ethics Committee has kept the members from meeting and considering House Majority Leader Tom DeLay's activities that could have ramifications for Microsoft. In making legislators aware of many issues, the Redmond company's financial reach may be part of why the committee has delayed their investigation. Perhaps everyone involved hopes that a delay will allow the heat to pass on this and other issues.



A dispute that has kept the House Ethics Committee from considering Majority Leader Tom DeLay's activities may have ramifications for Microsoft. When one begins to untangle the remarkable political organization created by Microsoft and lobbyists Preston, Gates Ellis et al, you find some uncanny coincidences.


The text from the earlier article appeared in the blockquote below:



The ethics committee, the House's mechanism for enforcing rules for members, has operated for exactly one day since Congress convened in January. In the meanwhile, a former Preston, Gates and Ellis lobbyist, Jack Abramoff has become the target of several serious investigations and the focus of the D.C. media.



Abramoff left Preston Gates in 2000. Even so, he's a problem for the firm's management. Reports have surfaced questioning Abramoff's financing of travel for lawmakers, especially House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Texas). All of the spending under investigation happened while Abramoff worked at Preston Gates.



The Washington Post reported that airfare to London and Scotland in 2000 for House Majority Whip Tom DeLay (R-Tex.) was charged to an American Express card issued to Jack Abramoff. House ethics rules bar lawmakers from accepting travel and related expenses from registered lobbyists.



How Does This Affect Microsoft



Many people believe that Microsoft helped construct Preston, Gates & Ellis as an alter ego for the Business Software Alliance. The firm of William H. Gates Sr., father of Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates, merged with Preston in 1990. The later old line Seattle firm started when Harold Preston located in Seattle from Iowa in 1883 and began practicing law. Jim Ellis joined Preston in 1949.



By getting William Gates Sr. together with Preston, Microsoft suddenly had an organization that looked like a law firm and not the legal department of Microsoft. The Seattle firm also had a small office in Washington, D.C. which helped Microsoft and the Business Software Alliance reach out and affect government policy.



But, Preston, Gates & Ellis needed to show some lobbying fees and clients other than Microsoft and the BSA. Adding Abramoff did just that. Additionally, he had his own clients and did not have to work on any Microsoft or BSA business.



Bad Choice



Adding Abramoff accomplished the goal of diversifying Preston, Gates & Ellis revenue and client base. But, Jack Abramoff didn't fit the culture. While most lobbyists seem happy with a six figure salary, Jack made millions annually. He also could be considered a maverick.



Now, the partners of Preston Gates must deal with the consequences of discovering their firm is listed on the invoice for Tom DeLay's plane fare to Scotland. They may also have to consider how deep and far the probe of their firm may go. For example, both Preston Gates and the Business Software Alliance are listed as contributors to the campaign of Senator Patrick J. Leahy, the Chairman of the Senate Judicial committee that ruled on the Government's settlement with Microsoft.



Meanwhile House majority leader Tom DeLay says that expenses on his trip were paid by a nonprofit organization and that the financial arrangements for it were proper. He contends that he had no way of knowing that any lobbyist financially supported the trip, either directly or through reimbursements to the nonprofit organization.



Non-profit organizations, foundations, multiple corporate entities seem like the products of a firm like Preston, Gates & Ellis. Someone will want to look into those issues. For example, on June 7, 2005, Bill Gates profile on CampaignMoney.com shows that he's contributed $59,100 since 1999 to all political candidates. Of course, that's personal money. Given the tens of millions of dollars attributed to Microsoft in campaign contributions, it might look like some kind of front organizations have made contributions beneficially for the welfare of the richest man in the world.



And the connection between Tom DeLay and Jack Abramoff: DeLay helped defeat a bill that would tax Preston Gates clients - American Indian casinos. You have to also wonder if those casinos used Microsoft Office.





What we did not discuss in our earlier article, however, was the possibility that the committee could remain deadlocked for other reasons. Such reasons could involve additional payments which Preston Gates may have some difficulty explaining. Should the ethics committee meet, some democrats could face similar problems for Tom DeLay. According to the the Washington Post, other names are beginning to surface, including both House and Senate members. Names discussed in the article include Thomas A. Daschle (S.D.) and Harry M. Reid (Nev.), Richard A. Gephardt (Mo.), Sen. Conrad Burns (R-Mont.), Patrick J. Kennedy (D-R.I.), Sen. Patty Murray (Wash.) and Byron L. Dorgan (N.D.).



While you might find the Washington Post's work admirable, there are some subtle changes in their reporting that grabbed my attention. For example, a switch has occurred in naming Jack Abramoff's employer. In our previous discussion, we referenced a washington Post story that said that Abramoff worked for Preston Gates. Even the Seattle Times wrote an article focused on Preston Gates' potential problems. For example, in a discussion of one of the firm's clients the article states:





...a California lawmaker recently urged a separate investigation into how the firm billed the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands after the auditor there reported the commonwealth "may have paid too much for services of Preston Gates. ... " Abramoff was the lead lobbyist.


Since the April article, the Washington Post has stopped inquiring into Preston Gates activities with regard to improper finances. Back on April 24th, the Washington Post mentioned Preston Gates eight separate times while relating to Mr. DeLay's potential ethics violations. The Post never mentioned Greenberg Traurig in that article. In the June 3rd article, Greenberg Traurig gets six mentions and Preston Gates receives no mention at all.



Previously, Abramoff charged expenses to a credit card billed to Preston Gates, and the Post stated that. Now, Abramoff's connections while at Greenberg Traurig have become the focus of the Post's attention. Yet, the questionable ethics violations supposedly happened while Abramoff worked for Preston Gates and it was their problem.



Surprise



Does it surprise you that Melinda French Gates holds a seat on the Board of the Washington Post Co.? You can see a listing of the Board here. You might also notice one bridge partner sitting on that board.



Some people believe the seat of power in Washington, D.C. resides at the headquarters of the Washington Post. Certainly, membership on the Post's board would require a position of prominence in the world. Perhaps some people might wonder what Melinda Gates has accomplished to put her in such a seat of power.



We can forget Melinda Gates position for a little while. We just want to establish the fact that she's there in a position of some power. We also want to mention the possibility that some relationship exists between Preston Gates and Microsoft's largest shareholders.



Here's another piece that might fit something in the puzzle. Charles Cooper wrote a short article in his C/Net News.com blog about the DeLay Abramoff and possible Microsoft connection. He wrote:





... what piqued my interest was the tidbit that the (Tom DeLay) flight invoice listed Preston Gates & Ellis, the firm that then employed Abramoff as a lobbyist. Computer history buffs will recall that Preston Gates & Ellis was co-founded by William H. Gates, Sr., the father of Microsoft founder Bill Gates.



I point that out because only last week the New York Times reported that the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation had contributed a substantial sums to the DeLay Foundation for Kids since 2001.



For more information on the Gates contribution, see this hyperlink.



Where the Money Goes



Let's begin to make some sense of Microsoft's puzzling maze of influence. We'll only travel a short distance before seeing multiple paths on which we can travel. Regardless of the path we take, Microsoft has paved it with money.



First, let's get a little glimpse of the firm of Preston Gates & Ellis from the Seattle Times article mentioned above:





Preston Gates traces its roots to Harold Preston, who arrived in Seattle from Iowa in 1883 and started a solo law practice. Civic activist Jim Ellis joined in 1949. The firm of William H. Gates Sr., father of Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates, merged with Preston in 1990.



In 1973, the firm opened its Washington, D.C., office, including on its nameplate former Democratic Congressman Lloyd Meeds, who represented northwest Washington from 1965 to 1979, and Emanuel Rouvelas, former counsel to the Senate Commerce Committee.



As I mentioned Monday, getting William Gates Sr. together with Preston, Microsoft suddenly had an organization that looked like a law firm and not the legal department of Microsoft. The office in Washington, D.C. offered Microsoft and the Business Software Alliance a new way to reach out and affect government policy.



In Figure 1, you can see an excerpt from a lobbyist filing form showing Preston Gates & Ellis et al registered as lobbyists for the Business Software Alliance. Many such forms exist in the database at http://sopr.senate.gov. We can now ask some questions we would hope our legislators might ask. Who paid Preston Gates to lobby on behalf of the BSA? From where did the funds come? What did Preston Gates do? Doesn't the BSA have a staff of its own lobbyists? What do the BSA lobbyists do?





Figure 1 - Excerpt of Lobbyist Registration for Showing BSA as Preston Gates client



In Figure 2, you we can see another excerpt of a registration document showing that Preston Gates & Ellis also lobbies for Microsoft. In Figure 2 we can also see some of the issues that the lobbyists handled for Microsoft, who also has their own in-house lobbyists.





Figure 2 - Excerpt of Lobbyist Registration for Showing Microsoft as Preston Gates client



In Figure 3, you can see the results of a query in the US Senate's lobbyist registration database. Preston Gates & Ellis has worked with the BSA for several years. Each link takes you to pages of information, names of lobbyists, expenses, issues on which the lobbyists work and updates when personnel rotate to other projects.





Figure 3 - An Example Query from which You Can Find Raw Lobbying Information



In Figure 4 you can see another excerpt of one of the registration forms found in the Senate lobbyist database. This excerpt appears to tell us that Jack Abramoff did work as a lobbyist for the BSA while at Preston Gates. While the Washington Post has started steering away from Preston Gates & Ellis, the information on this registration form should lead someone to look into or inquire about Abramoff's activities connected with the BSA.







Figure 4 - Excerpt from Registration Statement Showing Abramoff as a Lobbyist Working with the BSA



As one begins to examine the relationship among the BSA, Microsoft and Preston Gates & Ellis, perhaps a pattern emerges. One would want to take care before calling them interlocking companies or alter-egos. Still, consider the fact that the BSA enforces licensing for Microsoft. Some allegations exist that say the BSA waives penalties for non-compliant companies if those companies buy upgrades from Microsoft. We do not know if the BSA has that power. One would want to find out.



Additionally, profiles of firm members at Preston Gates & Ellis provide information saying that many members of the firm work for the BSA. Does that mean the BSA outsources personnel from Preston Gates & Ellis? To answer that, someone would have to inquire and examine the evidence and arrive at a factual determination. Understanding the relationships among the firms seems important in light of many unexplained situations.



The next two Figures will provide some insight into reasons one might believe that the three companies need examination. While circumstantial, the close relationships and inner workings could make one believe that not everything fits.



In Figure 5, one can see that the Chairman of the Senator Judiciary Committee received funds for re-election from Microsoft. This is the same Microsoft that the same the committee questioned with regard to the last Federal anti-trust settlement.





Figure 5 - Listing of Top Contributors to Patrick Leahy's campaign for the Senate in Vermont



In Figure 6, we excerpted two contributions and moved them into view of the camera. These contributions came from an earlier Senate race. Notice that both the BSA and Preston Gates & Ellis contributed to the Leahy campaign.





Figure 6 - Listing of Contributors to Patrick Leahy's campaign for the Senate in Vermont



Difficulties exist in following Microsoft's money trail because of the many sources of data. Additionally, the registration forms of many candidates, lobbyists, assistant, staff, etc. do not exist in digital formats. One cannot mine the data easily. One might consider this an ideal scenario for a monopolist whose compliance audits related to its settlement with the Department of Justice exist in secrecy.



Wag the Dog



In a statement written by Senator Leahy on December 12, 2001 entitled, "The Microsoft Settlement: A Look to the Future", he states:



Our courts have developed a test for determining the effectiveness of a remedy in a Sherman Act case: The remedy must end the anticompetitive practices, it must deprive the wrongdoer of the fruits of the wrongdoing, and it must ensure that the illegality does not recur. The Tunney Act also requires that any settlement of such a case serve the public interest. These are all high standards, but they are reasonable ones. In this case, the D.C. Circuit, sitting en banc and writing unanimously, found that Microsoft had engaged in serious exclusionary practices, to the detriment of their competitors and, thus, to all consumers. Today, we must satisfy ourselves that these matters have been addressed and redressed, or find out why not.


Considering the question Senator Leahy posed on December 12, 2001, we should look again to the statement of the well-known consumer advocate we quoted at the start of this article. He had a different slant when he wrote:





It is astonishing that the agreement fails to provide any penalty for Microsoft's past misdeeds, creating both the sense that Microsoft is escaping punishment because of its extraordinary political and economic power, and undermining the value of antitrust penalties as a deterrent. Second, the agreement does not adequately address the concerns about Microsoft's failure to abide by the spirit or the letter of previous agreements, offering a weak oversight regime that suffers in several specific areas. Indeed, the proposed alternative dispute resolution for compliance with the agreement embraces many of the worst features of such systems, operating in secrecy, lacking independence, and open to undue influence from Microsoft.



In addition to the hundreds of candidates receiving money from Microsoft, the combination of Microsoft, the BSA and Preston Gates & Ellis have access and use the services of former powerful people from Federal government. Here's a list of the lobbyists, their firms and former positons for whom Microsoft has access:





















































































Bill Archer

Pricewaterhouse Coopers





U.S. House of Representatives

Member, House of Representatives (R-Texas)

Richard Armey

DLA Piper Rudnick Gray Cary LLP



U.S. House of Representatives

Member, House of Representatives (R-Texas)



Lloyd Bentsen

DLA Piper Rudnick Gray Cary LLP

U.S. House of Representatives



Member, House of Representatives (D-Texas)

James Blanchard



DLA Piper Rudnick Gray Cary LLP

U.S. House of Representatives



Member, House of Representatives (D-Mich.)

Bill Brewster





Capitol Hill Consulting Group

U.S. House of Representatives

Member, House of Representatives (D-Okla.)



John Buchanan



PodestaMattoon



U.S. House of Representatives

Member, U.S. House of Representatives (R-Ala.)

Rod Chandler



Downey McGrath Group Inc.



U.S. House of Representatives

Member, U.S. House of Representatives (R-Wash.)



Daniel Coats



DLA Piper Rudnick Gray Cary LLP

U.S. Senate



Member, Senate (R-Ind.)

James Courter



DLA Piper Rudnick Gray Cary LLP

U.S. House of Representatives



Member, House of Representatives (R-N.J.)

John Culver



Arent Fox PLLC

U.S. Senate



Member, Senate (D-Iowa)



Robert Davis

Preston Gates Ellis Rouvelas & Meeds LLP



U.S. House of Representatives

Member, House of Representatives (R-Mich.)

Robert Dawson



Interpublic Group of Companies, Inc.



Army Corps of Engineers

Assistant Secretary; Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Army for Civil Works



Thomas Downey



Downey McGrath Group Inc.

U.S. House of Representatives



Member, House of Representatives (D-N.Y.)

John Doyle



Interpublic Group of Companies, Inc.

U.S. Department of Army



Acting Assistant Secretary of the Army (Civil Works)

Vic Fazio



Clark & Weinstock Inc.

U.S. House of Representatives

Member, House of Representatives (D-Calif.)



David Funderburk



Preston Gates Ellis Rouvelas & Meeds LLP



U.S. House of Representatives



Member, House of Representatives (R-N.C.)

Slade Gorton



Preston Gates Ellis Rouvelas & Meeds LLP

U.S. Senate



Member, Senate (R-Wash.)

Willis Gradison



Patton Boggs

U.S. House of Representatives



Member, House of Representatives (R-Ohio)

Jim Hall



Federalist Group

National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB)



Chairman, National Transportation Safety Board

Ed Jenkins



Palmetto Group

U.S. House of Representatives



Member, U.S. House of Representatives (D-Ga.)



Ray Kogovsek

WPP Group plc



U.S. House of Representatives



Member, U.S. House of Representatives (D-Colo.)

Gregory Laughlin

Patton Boggs



U.S. House of Representatives



Member, House of Representatives (R-Texas).



Ray McGrath

Downey McGrath Group Inc.

U.S. House of Representatives





Member, House of Representatives (R-N.Y.)

Lloyd Meeds



Preston Gates Ellis Rouvelas & Meeds LLP

U.S. House of Representatives

Member, House of Representatives (D-Wash.)

Leon Panetta

Interpublic Group of Companies, Inc.

U.S. House of Representatives



Member, House of Representatives (D-Calif.)



John Podesta

PodestaMattoon



White House Office



Chief of Staff to President William Clinton

Fred Rooney

Interpublic Group of Companies, Inc.



U.S. House of Representatives



Member, House of Representatives (D-Pa.)



William Schachte

Blank & Rome LLP

U.S. Department of Defense (DOD)



Acting Judge Advocate General of the Navy

Rodney Slater



Patton Boggs

U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT)



Secretary of Transportation

Bob Walker



WPP Group plc

U.S. House of Representatives



Member, House of Representatives (R-Pa.)



Vin Weber

Clark & Weinstock Inc.



U.S. House of Representatives

Member, House of Representatives (R-Minn.)

Charles Wilson

Palmetto Group

U.S. House of Representatives

Member, House of Representatives (D-Texas)









Some Other Friends in High Places



Microsoft has unparalleled influence throughout the Federal government. On the cover of a recent edition of VarBusiness Magazine dated June 26, 2005 the editors presented a large headline which read:

It's A Microsoft World. Five years after running afoul of the Feds, Microsoft is as powerful than ever. Pushing a platform instead of products could make it stronger still. Why nothing seems to stop it.



Few people who have researched the company believe that Microsoft ran afoul of the Feds. How could a company that owns the Feds run afoul of them? Microsoft wields more power than the Federal government. Reading the following, you will notice just a single handful of people who have vested interests in making sure the Federal government stays out of Microsoft's business.



Phil Bond: Undersecretary of Commerce for Technology. Bond is the highest-ranking appointed official who deals with technology. He is the former top aide to U.S. Rep. Jennifer Dunn (R-Wash.), whose district includes Microsoft's hometown of Redmond. Bond's top policy aide at Commerce was Connie Correll Partoyan, the former executive vice president of TechNet (a Microsoft-funded trade association), who recently took a lobbying job for the law firm Preston, Gates, Ellis & Rouvelas Meeds.



William Kolasky: Appointed deputy assistant attorney general for international enforcement for the Justice Department's antitrust division in October 2001. Kolasky was a lawyer for the Association for Competitive Technology, a group whose largest contributor is Microsoft, and wrote a friend of the court brief supporting Microsoft in its antitrust lawsuit.



Ed Gillespie : Until recently, he headed the Republican National Committee. Gillespie helped build the Republican party and identified candidates for state and federal elections. He has returned to Quinn Gillespie & Associates. Prior to becoming the head of the RNC he was a Microsoft lobbyist. Microsoft paid his lobbying firm, Quinn Gillespie & Associates, $1.2 million between 2001 and 2003, according to the Center for Public Integrity.



Richard Wallis: Microsoft's associate general counsel chairs the American Bar Association's antitrust section. This group influences how much oversight federal judges have over antitrust settlements. In late June, a U.S. appeals court rejected claims that Microsoft's 2001 deal with the government was too lenient.



Stay Tuned



Many difficulties associated with examining Microsoft's business practices exist. Many people have attempted to catalog and chronicle the various tactics used. The amount of material seems overwhelming.



When one looks at such data, the human perception mechanism begins to shut down. To defend itself, people become confused and go into states of denial or apathy. While we can discuss much more evidence, I consider it a good approach to simply digest the material in smaller chunks.



Hopefully we raised questions that people should examine. In the mean time, I will leave you with this quote I have seen frequently.



"The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That in it's [sic] essence, is Fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group or by any controlling private power."



-- Franklin D. Roosevelt, Message proposing the "Standard Oil" Monopoly Investigation, 1938



Respectfully submitted



Notes:



(1)Letter from Ralph Nader to Renata B. Hesse January 28, 2002 http://www.cptech.org/ms/nader-doj01282002.html (Back to top)

Related stories:

  Nav
» Read more about: Story Type: LXer Features; Groups: Microsoft

» Get new stories by e-mail: nightly or as they are published

« Return to the newswire homepage

  Related stories
» More like this

Comments (106)

Wow, Tom, Great job!

This kind of research takes time and attention away from other things in your life. Thank you for compiling this and placing it here in a public record. Wow, kick ass.

DaGoodBoy
its a shame that the pro windows + microsoft reports get aired across the web with reeding figures in the hundreds of thousands, while this well reserched quality article of pure uncomfortable truth sits here preaching to the choir.

times like this make me wish i owned a newspaper.
I appreciate your efforts Tom. I fear for our democracy when this sort of influency buying becomes so blatant.

Exposure is the best weapon against these back door dealings. When the lights come on, the cockroaches scatter.
Exceptional article Tom. Kudos for all the work you done. Hopefully, we all can keep this issue in the spotlight and spread the word to get more publicity regarding the issue at hand.
Maybe we,as the choir could post a link to other sites we frequent,as well as people we know.Every little bit helps.Truly a great article.Thanks.
I really appreciate the kind words.

I have researched this material for about three years - beginning with my efforts to create the Texas Open Source Bill that Senator John Carona filed. With all the encounters, research, discoveries, bewilderment, rejection, etc., I didn't catch a break until the Tom DeLay-Jack Abramoff issue surfaced.

Without all the background information, the news coverage of the DeLayGate(s) ethics violation would have just gone right by me.

Sometimes windows like this open and the only way the news reaches others is because we share what we've seen. Maybe this is an opportunity and maybe people won't care. But, I will do something about this because I think it will matter. Considering the alternative is self-defeating. If I'm going to be defeated, let someone else do it. To not share this is equivalent to saying we don't make a difference.

I believe everyone makes a difference and everyone is committed to something. When we don't act, that makes a difference - not the one we want. If we say we have no commitment, we're lying to ourselves. We're always committed. In the latter case our commitment is to no commitment.

So, we might as well act.

Tom,

This would make a great piece for IndyMedia or Radio4all. Have you considered turning it into a radio show?
I would do it.
As far as exposure goes, you might be happy (or not) to hear that this report has been Slashdotted. Buckle down the servers, dave! ;)
Jack Abramoff is about as sleazy as they come - and I am not at all surprised to see him associated with Microsoft. Check out this page - http://www.jackinthehouse.org/
Tom: Greetings from Carrollton, Texas

While I run a MS shop here, reading through the reply string inspires me to look more into Linux.

I learned about your investigative journalism from a Google Alert that I set up to look for "Tom DeLay" AND "Jack Abramoff"

Here are some statistics to consider from the useful http://www.CRP.org website (www.OpenSecrets.org)

Microsoft Contributions from 1990-2006: $14,140,200

Microsoft Lobbying Expenditures just from 1997-2000: $16,880,000

Microsoft employed lobbyists such as Jack Abramoff ($1,100,000) and Grover Norquist (>$280,000) whose practices are now being scrutinized.

You may learn more about how Microsoft has abused the special visa programs (which has been a Microsoft lobbying priority since about 1990) (Use "Microsoft" as the employer name.) at: http://www.zazona.com/LCA-Data/AdvQuery.asp or http://www.h1b.info/lca_search.php or http://archive.flcdatacenter.com/casesearch.asp

Dr. Gene Nelson

...And this is just in the U.S....

Makes me wonder what kind of similar influence Microsoft has and/or is seeking elsewhere in the world, too.
We're likely to discuss that. You might check the links at the bottom of the page where we touch a little on their dealing in other countries. But, we have cities, states and municipalities to cover before we go international.

We'll get there. Hang on.
Yes, they've greased so many palms here in Oz that it's a wonder some pollies have enough grip left to hold their party drinks. And set up "independent" technology centres which are almost shop-fronts for Microsoft, spending public money to do so.

Western Australia has one technology centre which has decidedly not been so entirely suborned, and small as they are, they are the envy of the other Australian states. http://www.opensource.wa.gov.au/
As an example of look-a-like practices in the EU, read the story "Conflict of interests of political party president in softwarepatents issue in the EU" at LXer, http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/38793/index.html

It shows the Chairman of the political party EPP in the udiciary Committee of the EU-Parliament works for a lobby firm in Brussels which also works for the German association BVDW which is a known proxy of Microsoft (sounds familiar after this article from Tom, doesn't it?). He's one of the largest proponents of software-patents in the Euro-Parliament at the moment, and recently rejected amendments to prevent the patenting of software-patents in a new EU-directive. As far as I know, it's illegitimate in Europe, to receive funds from companies for elections, but one never knows.

I think Tom might cover this subject later (I hope so), however, it's difficult if you don't live in the EU, I think, and it's also a 'hot item', so more news about this might be coming in the next few weeks.

Boycott Dell, HP, Gateway

38 earlier comments in the full thread.

While visions of sugarplums danced in their heads ...

Wow, that must be pretty good stuff, please share it!
Abe: it's illegal to share mushrooms on a message board. Besides the graphics and javascript tend to crash most browsers...
Here are some companies that DO offer consumers a choice.

Systemax http://www.systemax.com/divisions.htm

Microtel http://www.microtelpc.com/

LinuxCertified http://www.linuxcertified.com/

Fry's Outpost.com http://shop2.outpost.com/search?search_type=regular&sqxts=1&...

walmart.com (you have to search around a bit) http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=3951&path=0:3...

Anyone else want to add to the list?

Yes, it's certainly nice to be able to order in a cheap Linux machine. I'll feel a lot better when one can walk into a brick and mortar and buy a machine running Linux. PC Club announced quite some time ago that they were getting into Linux. But if you go down to the local store there is not a Linux box in sight, and the employees are clueless on the matter. Best Buy? CompUSA? Forget it.

Of course, Linux is supposedly doing better in the embedded market; PDA's and such. Unfortunately, however, in the Oklahoma City Metro area, population 1M, which is where I live, it is impossible to go out and buy a Linux-based PDA. Office Depot used to carry Sharp Zaurus, 2 or 3 years ago. But now it's just Palm and an ever increasing number of MS based devices. And I don't think I have ever, at any time, seen a cell phone here that wasn't a Nokia. For practical purposes, Motorola does not exist.

BTW, we don't have Fry's here. There's one in the Dallas metro area, 200 miles away, if you count Mesquite as being part of the metro area. (I think it's in Mesquite; I've only been there once.) BTW, I'm curious. At Fry's, do they have a "Linux Section"? Or are the Linux PC's just mixed in with the others? Or is there this one lone Linux PC in the showroom? Or is it a special request thing where you have to specifically ask for it, sight unseen, and they call back to the warehouse for it?

As far as I can see, preinstalled retail Linux in a brick and mortar, embedded or non, is as rare as the unicorn.
sbergman27:

At the Fry's in the San Diego area the Linux machines are mixed in with the other i386 offerings, which are loosely displayed in order by price. Most, if not all, have Linspire (desktop & notebook). There are only a handful of Linux models, but the pricing is phenominal . They do have a seperate Mac section...but that is really a solid niche market with a lot of markup. Fry's has always had a great retail selection of boxed Linux distros and technical literature for good prices. I've been using Linux since '97, when I moved here from WA State, and there has always been plenty of resources for Linux books, etc., in retail stores (not necessarily the big chains, but places Like Fry's or SD Technical Books where you can browse and read beefore you buy).

(BTW: I lived most of my childhood, teenage and young adult years in Tulsa and DFW (Arlington)...headed West permanently in '89 and never looked back.)
This link might be interesting: http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20050512_124421.html

It's about HP offering preinstalled Linux notebooks in a very silent way in EMEA (that's almost everywhere, except USA). Very hard to get though. Only when enough people ask for it, it will go to the shelves.
HP does not open advertise the Ubuntu option, but instead lists FreeDOS

I guess that's from the overwhelming demand from consumers for FreeDOS.

:^)

To me that make HP's position even MORE irritating (I'm in the USA).
Below is another interesting link. It is a video/Audio demo clip that shows one of HP's notebooks that come with Linux and available via direct sales. The clip works great in FireFox + RealPlayer.

http://zdnet.com.com/1606-2-5298692.html

Disclaimer: I am not associated with HP or have any of their stocks (I don't believe in stocks period). I only use their products at work and at home. Actually I dislike HP for what they did with the Alpha. They favored and pushed the Itanium which has never delivered on its promises from day one. What a shame.
For something a bit more high end try Los Alamos Computers:

http://www.laclinux.com/en/Workstation

I have ordered five systems from them and the parts are great as is the customer service. Plus they are a bunch of Linux geeks who came out of the Los Alamos Labs.
The whole thing is that HP is just pretending to offer a (business) desktop linux.

If HP really did want to offer consumers an alternative you could just go to their website and find it easily, click and buy it, and not have frustrating pages where the Linux option disappears at configuration. and not have pages where the Linux option mysteriously becomes way more expensive.

The last time I called HP and asked them about Linux the person on the phone acted like they had never heard of Linux. It was a "What is this Linux you speak of?", mentality.

I've given up on Dell, HP, and Gateway.

I refuse to buy from them until they show a serious effort to offer CONSUMERS a choice (other than Microsoft).

They seem to not want my business.

Fine, I will NOT buy home computers from them. I will also NOT buy business computers from them either.

In my option companies like these are anti-competitve and anti-consumer choice.
I bought my last pre-built computer from pogo linux. I got it loaded with SuSE 9.1 and it works like a charm.

They'll put Windows on for you if you want.

pogo is based in a little town called Redmond, in Washington state. Its supposed to be a pretty nice place.

I usually build my own boxes, but it felt very good to support a linux box builder with my hard earned cash.

The machine is very sweet!
cyber_rigger:

All you needed to do is to follow this link and convince yourself. http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF04a/12454-64287-89...

If you want to build your own, just do it. I myself is EE, and good one If I might add, but I don't like building my own. I like tailoring them to my liking. Please don't hide the facts or publicize inaccurate information (being polite here) . I think HP is sincere about supporting Linux. They could have done a better job on their site to allow consumers to select the hardware and the OS they like (Windows, Linux, or Free DOS) in the same configuration tool, but hay, you never know what kind of contract they have with you know who?

I keep stressing my point because I can't stand letting inaccurate info slide.

Here are some links to customize the selection to your liking. Now, I rest my case.

http://h71016.www7.hp.com/dstore/MiddleFrame.asp?page=config... http://h71016.www7.hp.com/dstore/MiddleFrame.asp?page=config... http://h71016.www7.hp.com/dstore/MiddleFrame.asp?page=config...
Column 1 Starting at: $540.00 Mandrake Linux 9.2

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF04a/12454-64287-89...

How do I buy this Linux machine for $540.00?

HP is just playing a game.
LOL- I don't see a way to buy ANY of these machines for $540.00. Bait n switch indeed! For $650 you get a 'Compaq dc5000 MicroTower Alternate OS' with no floppy drive, shared video, a dinky 40GB hard drive, CD-ROM instead of CDR...

"HP recommends Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional"

If I want a vendor-built box, I'll go with one of the many Linux specialists.
cyber_rigger: How do I buy this Linux machine for $540.00?

Let me give you a step-by-step guide, cause it can be done! 1) Go to http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF04a/12454-64287-89... 2) In the first column you mentioned, click on 'configure and buy', the red link below, 3) Drink a cup of coffee, since you will have to wait some time, 4) In the second column, click on 'customize' (now this table is really interesting, look at the price differences between Mandrake and Win) 5) scroll down to processor, choose the 2.6 Ghz one, which saves $90, 6) scroll down to 'optical drive', and select "No optical drive", which saves you $19, Now, in the left column, there is a sliding frame that tells you the current config will cost you $541. That's not $540, I agree. So, to get it 540, follow step 7: 7) Choose FreeDos instead of Mandrake. Now it's 540!

So theoratically, it can be done, but it's really a big hassle. If you config the same WinXP (Home) computer as cheap as possible, you will end up paying $620. By the way, it's interesting to see; -If you choose Mandrake, the OS selection is halfway in the customize list, -If you choose Win, the OS selection is FIRST in the list.

So they're not very objective, but again, theoratically, if you really want to, it can be done.

By the way, what do you guys think of this: http://www.questar.it/shop/customer/dellcart.php?mode=add&pr...

A Dell with Linspire! (NO win!) Well, only in Italy, only two choices, no software support from Dell, and it has not much to do with Dell, but it shows people are trying to sell it anyway.
By the way, what do you guys think of this: http://www.questar.it/shop/customer/dellcart.php?mode=add&pr...

I could buy a Dell home Windows machine, install Linux on it and resell it.

Dell would still be anti-consumer-choice, and anti-competitive.

I'm waiting to see something in Dell's "home computer" section.

Dell may not want to offer consumers a choice. That's fine, let them.

I just don't want to do business with them (home use OR business). If you support "consumer choice" I suggest that you DO NOT do business with Dell either.



How about an ASUS laptop with no software? Appears that without shipping this would come in under a $1K USD. Here is the link: http://www.mwave.com/mwave/skusearch.hmx?SCriteria=NB-BA2153...

My only qualms are given the screen size: potential excess in weight and in heat output. I am less worried about Linux compatibility, but I would like some assurance.

Regarding the heat - this unit is supposedly available with the 25W chip the MT-30, but the only choice I have encountered is the 35W ML-30. The former probably would extend battery life as well as emit less heat.
Package hardware from a reputable name doesn't guarantee anything.

I have a Sony laptop bought through Circuit City. I am very very glad I bought the extended service plan.

It's been sent back 4 times for failure of the DVD drive, and once just for overheating due to dust in the fan and cooling fins. Ya see, there's no way for a mere owner to clean it.

Oh, and the "manufacturers warantee(sp?) " is void if I install anything over the WinXP that came with it. Har de har har, XP booted, to make sure the hardware worked, then was overwritten with Debian Sid.

However, I consider re-installing Windows to be sort of a final diagnostic test to make sure that it's really a hardware problem. So it's the last thing I do before returning the unit to Circuit City.

In fact, it's about to go back a 5th time, since the DVD drive is screwing up massively again. I'm very glad I kept my old no-name laptop that I bought in 1998 and still works perfectly well. Hmmm, there's a lesson there...

Biggest lesson: No More Laptops. I can't just go buy another DVD writer and slap it in!

Wow, great research on Microshaft s Linux!

Will this article be posted here indefinitely, or do you have your own website? I'll definitely link to it from my Freedomware site - http://www.freedomware.us - when I find time. It's been months since I've had time to even touch that site, but I want to get it squared away sometime this summer.

I'd like to exchange notes with you. I live in Seattle and went from just another of Microsoft's victims to one of its biggest critics. Microsoft wasn't even on my agenda when I first ran for public office, in 1999. I was gunning for a seat on the Seattle School Board and a local media wh*re who works for Microsoft sent me my first computer virus ever on the day of the general election. He said he was relaying it on behalf of Bill Gates, Senior, who said, "It just goes to show, you can never be too careful."

That was my first big clue that Bill Gates considers the Seattle School District his personal property, and he doesn't want any reformers trying to help the kids, lest they upset his apple cart. I've also been told - though I've never had time to verify it - that Preston, Gates & Ellis is closely involved with the school district's levies. That wouldn't surprise me; the school district (my former employer) is extraordinarily corrupt, and I know a variety of corporations are milking it for public relations, and they're probably getting some money out of it, too.

Also, a teacher from another city who's associated with the Evergreen Freedom Foundation (a right-wing think tank) tried to convince me to see a Preston, Gates & Ellis attorney who she swore helped them in their battle against Washington State's corrupt teachers union, (Sheez, EVERYTHING in this state's corrupt!) I told her that I didn't trust Preston Gates, but she tried to convince me that attorney's ethics would ensure this attorney's trustworthiness. I said, "Yeah, right." This was before the Abramoff scandal hit the fan.

I didn't know that Melinda Gates and Warren Buffet sat on the Washington Post's board of directors. That's very juicy information.

If Microsoft can get its team members on the board of such a powerful newspaper, how much influence do you suppose they've gained in the open source community?

When I ask such questions, people invariably dismiss me as a "conspiracy theorist" - the bad kind, of course. But only a fool would suggest that Microsoft has NO operatives running around in open source circles.

During my last two campaigns for public office, I made Microsoft and Linux campaign issues. I wasn't surprised when no Seattle media mentioned my crusade against Microsoft. What amazed me was the fact that not ONE open source group or publication mentioned my campaign, either. I wrote a brief article for Slashdot, and they promptly rejected it. I contacted some other Linux groups, and they greeted me with silence. I was banned from Democratic Underground.

I'm also puzzled by the lack of big Linux news for so many months. Firefox has been kicking butt in the browser wars, and this is the perfect time for Linux to score with a dynamic new operating system upgrade, with Longhorn still many months away. But not a peep from the Linux crowd.

My hunch is that Microsoft has infiltrated the open source community to a far greater degree than most people realize. For that reason, along with the corruption that pervades so many of our institutions, I suspect that Microsoft may never have a credible challenger from inside the U.S. I think the only hope may be for some other nation - perhaps China, Venezuela, Brazil, Cuba or India - to get behind LInux and really do battle with Microsoft.

One last comment - I'm sick and tired of the open source argument that there's no need to get political when dealing with Microsoft; "All we have to do is build a better operating system, and we'll gradually eat away Microsoft's market share!"

Don't count on it. True, open source software is taking a toll, but far too slowly, giving Bill Gates plenty of time to plot all sorts of nasty tricks. With friends like George W. Bush and the communist Chinese government, Gates is capable of just about anything. Anyone who's truly concerned about Microsoft needs to take off the gloves - and their blinders.

Thanks again for a great article.
DavidB -- This site represents what used to be Linux news -- the reason you're not "seeing" a lot of news the way you'd expect, is because the best Linux news sites are community news site, like this one. Oh, and running a news site is not trivial. This site was started by the same guy who (along with Dwight Johnson) started LinuxToday.com back in 1998 -- That's Dave Whitinger.

The moment you get an advertising focus you begin to have problems with linking to outside content. I know this subject extremely well, so hear me out -- and the things you're allowed to say begin to have a greater context when there's some kind of Corporate Involvment.

There's only so many writers a commercial news web site can have on hand, and they'd better be extremely good, and be willing to work for small amounts of cash relatively speaking. The end effect is that the news you see the most outside of Linux news sites is often shill-created garbage. People that tried to write honestly about Linux for a living have to be employed doing other things for cash -- often in large enterprise-class settings, there's a muzzle of sorts. You're often not allowed to write about your field of specialty without corporate concent.

This leaves the landscape in a state of anonymous sourcing or covered by people that don't know the truth about the situation, because they haven't been that close to it (there are rare exceptions). One of the truths that isn't getting covered a lot in the press: Linux is kicking butt in the corporate arena. It's being used all over the place. It's not making "quiet inroads", it's silently smashing the corporate sound barrier.

As for your comments about political process: spot on. If there was a time to rally the troops and get them involved in lobbying their own represenatives -- this is it. I've written myself about this numerous times and never felt that people were against the idea -- it's just that geeks and politics just don't seem to mix all that well (Slashdot does try to have categorized political stories, but it's just not enough).

I don't know what it's going to take to wake us up -- maybe it'll just end up being an American thing, with the rest of the world slowly embracing the whole underlying idea of Democracy for software (Free Software, in my humble opinion, is pretty much this) while corporate America gets the legal system in the US tailored to closing it (and competition for Microsoft) off.

I'd like to see your story... It may be late, but it's never too late.

--FeriCyde



DavidB:

Not much I can add to Paul's comment. He sums it up well. But I'll build just a little bit on it.

To answer your question about the residence of the article - I write for this site among other publications and the content stays here. So, you will always find it in the archives.

Please submit your story or else publish on your web site and we'll link to it.

You'll see more about the Microsoft issue in the coming days.

One other point, I don't believe Microsoft people have infiltrated the Linux community. We're pretty good at recognizing astroturfers because they don't know the dialect. If you've ever been to a party and stayed sober while everyone else got really canned, you should relate.

Best wishes
Thanks for the feedback. But keep in mind that Microsoft operatives aren't necessarily clueless about open source; Microsoft can buy out Linux buffs just as they buy anyone else.

In fact, I've had some rather bizarre experiences with a few Linux groups and websites. Remember, also, that open source buffs aren't necessarily liberal or any other political persuasion. I've run into some right-wing Linux fans who attacked me quite viciously when they learned I was campaigning against Microsoft. (Incidentally, I consider myself an independent, not liberal, for whatever it's worth.)

To this day, I've learned of just one other political candidate in the nation who has campaigned against Microsoft or for Linux, and I don't think she was that serious. I find that really odd. I've discovered some dynamic candidates putting software on the agenda in Spain and a few other nations.

Oh, yeah, I just remembered another odd experience. During my last political campaign, all the media ignored me, as usual, including - as I mentioned before - SlashDot.org. But one of my opponents got all kinds of publicity, even though she was a complete idiot with virtually no campaign issues. She certainly had nothing to say about software, so I was amazed when I saw an article about her in some international web publication that focuses largely on high-tech issues. I can't think of the name offhand, but it operates out of the UK.

Anyway, this lady supposedly discovered links to pornogrpahic websites on Washington State's Superintendent of Public Instruction's website. So I contacted this publication and asked how that qualifies as international news, and if it IS newsworthy, then surely they'd be interested in learning that I'm campaigning against Bill Gates in his own backyard.

No response.

I do have some good news, though - it appears to me that the public relations tide is turning. When people used to bash Microsoft on the forums at DemocraticUnderground.com, the response was often mixed roughly 50/50 for and against Microsoft, even if their only support was based on Bill Gates' phony "philanthropy."

Nowadays, I see almost no one supporting Microsoft there. Gates has even received a lot of bad publicity here in Seattle. Besides the Preston Gates fiasco, he and Paul Allen have virtually taken over the Seattle Center - the city's premier landmark - bilking the taxpayers out of millions of dollars. I think it's almost comical that the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation can't or won't even pay fair rent!
PaulFerris is making an interesting point about the corporate use of Linux here.

I'd like to add some points to this;

One guy (don't know who it was anymore) once said: "All we (open source; Linux) have to do, is make sure, that the money involved with open-source use, is bigger than the $60Million MS has to offer". That implies, when that point is reached, MS can't buy off open source anymore.

Disregarding politics, it's going towards that point. You might know LXer member Adam started the Linux-migration list (great list by the way!). Please look at the top bar of the LXer site, and you see "Newswire, events, forum, and then Migrations". When you click on that link, you get a lengthy list of 'groups' (most government/corporate) migrating to Linux. Now, I've also been working on this list, and it's really stumbling. Today I added the 275th entry, and most of the entries are US-groups! It covers really big things (Like India National Bank, cities of Barcelona, Geneva, Muenchen, Houston, Vienna and Beijing, US army, many insurance and IT-companies and so on), but you really should see it for yourself. That's only the companies, of which we know they use Linux, because most companies don't want to tell (one reason is, MS starts annoying them by phone if they smell they might use Linux). But I have to stress, it's not only Europe/Asia, but very much in the United States as well! (Starts over here: http://lxer.com/module/db/viewby.php?dbn=12&sort=112&uid=108... 130 US entries at the moment).

So there's more use of Linux than most of us can perceive, and it's only when you start helping on such a thing like a list of groups migrating to Linux, that you see the impact it really has. But for some reason, there's too much silence compared to that impact. That reason might as well be political power of Microsoft (and the power to annoy corporate Linux users by phone).

As an European, I see only one way of decreasing the political power of MS: It should be forbidden for companies to pay money to politicians (that largely means campaign funding). As far as I know it's forbidden in the country where I live, and it helps a great bit reducing the power large companies with much money have. That's a change only the (US-)voters can make I think, because they're the only one more powerful (in politics) than large companies at the moment, and that's also true for the EU.
DaveB : wrote
Quoting:Thanks for the feedback. But keep in mind that Microsoft operatives aren't necessarily clueless about open source; Microsoft can buy out Linux buffs just as they buy anyone else.


This is true, and does happen, though I think it's actually backfiring more inside MSFT than hurting F/OSS software. As MSFT gains more and more F/OSS programmers(note the recent Gentoo guy moving to MSFT) MSFT opens and softens it's stance more and more. of course it could be a prelude to be nice and friendly to F/OSS and when their guard is down stab them in the back(Sun???)

Of course what started as the laughable shared source, has turned into several pure Open Source projects. Who is converting Who is probably a good question to ask about MSFT internally.

Core bussiness practices at Microsoft

If you look at Microsoft's business model their core should be creating great software.

But, they have added another core to their business: Protect the monopoly at all costs.
Hell, looking back to their original Dos acquisition, the business model has never been to 'create' anything. Market share has always been the goal.
jimf,

even before microsoft Billy G went dumpster diving to steal the code to write his basic compiler.

he didn't even create before there was a microsoft.
Before one condemns the officers of Microsoft, remember that they are a publicly held company. If they didn't make every effort to maintain the value of their stock, they could be sued individually by those stockholders.

While it may seem reprehensible to buy influence in government, it is in fact one very effective method of enhancing "shareholder value".

Making good software is not Microsoft's primary duty as a company. Their singular duty is to enhance shareholder value.

Neil Stevenson in _Cryptonomicon_ does a wonderful job of illustrating this point. It's also a great nerd-read.

On Gates, he's never actually innovated just as Number6x states. They stole BASIC, bought DOS, copied WINDOWS, "borrowed" NT. The only product they really created was OS/2, but they abandoned it because IBM owned some too and Microsoft doesn't share.
Bob_Robertson wrote: The only product they really created was OS/2

In everything I have ever read on this, OS/2 was suposed to be a joint project, but, IBM Engineers were the one's who did most (i suspect all) of the coding. Certainly after v1.03 that as true.
Bob_Robertson:

Quoting:Before one condemns the officers of Microsoft, remember that they are a publicly held company. If they didn't make every effort to maintain the value of their stock, they could be sued individually by those stockholders.


Puh-lease. They are only required to make offers and acceptances for goods and services, exchange consideration, it must be within the law and they must demonstrate capacity and ethical conduct.

I don't think any stockholder except Vinnie "the fist" Ratillio, would expect them to behave the way they do. Just because the law lets them get away with things no one else does, doesn't mean they're doing right by anyone -including their shareholders. If I was their CPA, I'd through the Sarbanes Oxley book at them.

How come they have the highest gross profit of any enterprise in America. Only the cocaine dealers have higher gross margins. If it's too good to be true it probably is.

They're scumbags and no justification can change that. Money as God won't get anyone to heaven, brother.

Jimf, likely the key reason why OS/2 was stable and reliable, as opposed to Windows.

Tadelste, I didn't say I agreed with their methods, only that they are indeed making an effort (a vile, putrid effort) to fulfil their primary task: Maintain the bottom line.

They have the highest profit margin because they sell $.30 CDs for $300. I cannot say that I wouldn't do exactly the same thing if I could.

Don't let your disgust with Microsoft's methods distract you: Government influence is available for sale. If it weren't, Microsoft with all their billions couldn't buy it. Microsoft is a bidder in the market, but so are many, many others.

Eliminate the source of the problem.
Bob: The goal of financial management of any company is to maximize the value of the company. But it has to be legal.
Tadeslte, what isn't legal about it? I'm quite certain that the terms and values of the contributions are quite legal, that's why lobyists and politicians are most often lawyers.

Just nit-picking, I do understand what you mean. Just remember who it is who decides what is and isn't "legal": Politicians and lawyers.
The laws exist. It's up to government regulators to enforce them or someone can take them to court if they can afford it.

The existence of their $ 180 million anti Linux slush fund is legal in the US but not legal in the EU. We'll see if the EU can see past all the other crap they have going with Microsoft to enforce their own anti-trust rules.
Agreed, it will be interesting to watch. This year seems to be a watershed, with both Microsoft and SCO reaching the ends of their ropes.
Thanks for sharing this useful information. It's great.

credit auto
Please give me the access to delete these spams, I'm usually able to go online when you people aren't
I am working on getting you and Hans and Sander forum rights..
@Scott: Great!

Quoting:The goal of financial management of any company is to maximize the value of the company.


Which runs counter to the goals and interest of shareholders. They want short term value while a company should focus on long term value.
RE: Deleting Forum Content:
Quoting:I am working on getting you and Hans and Sander forum rights..
Does that mean none of my pithy zingers will never more see the light of day? Think of all the forum threads that will no longer come to an abrupt stop, when all rational beings flee.

I can only suggest caution to not overuse your new found powers, i.e. please reflect before you squeeze the trigger.

As always,

Your Buddy Txt.
my target is lediana and other spambots.
> my target is lediana and other spambots.

Phew!

Backwards on Fascism

Sorry, but Fascism is "titular ownership of private property, but you get to keep it only so long as you abide government regulation of how, when, where, etc, you get to utilize your property".

I'm not disagreeing with the abuses you're seeing, they certainly are abuses. But the abuses are not because Microsoft owns the government, or is more powerful than government.

Those abuses are because politicians hold power for sale, and Microsoft is buying in order to attempt to maintain their bottom line.

If the politicians did not have the power available for purchase, Microsoft would not go to them.

Microsoft also knows how tenuous their hold on their own "property" is, being prosecuted on two contenants by different governments, with only the most vague glossing over of the fact that the prosecutions are politicians going after a cash-cow for "donations".

I whole heartedly recommend the articles on http://www.Mises.org/ for discussions on styles of economics, of which fascism is just another category.

Bob-
Ok, now I see the error.

Quoting FDR as an expert in economics is not only "appeal to authority", he was a virulent fascist in his deeds and programs.

If you want quotes on economics, quote an economist and not a politician.

Bob-
Hey Bob,

Quoting FDR as an expert in economics is indeed pretty warped, but I'm not sure that quoting an economist is any better.
I think the horror of what FDR saw when presented with the information about Standard Oil caused him to make the statement. You can own a government and it doesn't cost that much. These guys can be bought off for a pittance. It's sad but true.

When the current governor of California campaigned, he kept saying he has his own money and doesn't owe anything to special interests. To whom do you think "special interests" applies? If you have the fattest checkbook on the block, then you can make sure you're at the top of the special interest list.

Happy New Year!
Jimf, in terms of the "court economists" one usually hears about, who for example think Greenspan did a "good" job, I agree whole heartedly. However, I think you will find the discussions on Mises.org to be of an entirely different character.

Tadeslte, FDR was just trying to distract attention from his own alphabet-soup of federal regulatory agencies and policies. He didn't want people to recognize his own fascism.

"the horror...information about Standard Oil"

This is interesting. During the time of Standard Oil's operation, prices for all petroleum products dropped substantially. The efficiencies that S.O. used to undercut the prices of their competition rippled outward, and other companies had to innovate in order to stay in business. And stay they did, requiring S.O. to continually innovate themselves.

Can you provide some citation as to what this horror might have been?

As to the present governor of California, good sir, if I open a septic tank I am not going to act surprised about what I find floating to the top.

Happy New Year, indeed.
Bob_Robertson: I'm as critical of FDR as most historians. But, reload on Standard Oil, please. Will somebody defend Microsoft 70 years from now the way you just defended SO.

When the Standard Oil case went to the Supreme court, the files contained over 14,000 pages with 2,500 pages of testimony. The company sabotaged competition such as causing refineries to explode and they killed people. Rockefeller ran a gambit to buy up land where competing refineries had pipelines and used paramilitary units to guard, secure, takeover and fight competition.

The price issue you brought up was how Rockefeler drove the competition out of business. Price wars - ever hear of those.

He put his competitors out of business by having the railroads align with him and report competitors deliveries. He owned everybody in politics by bribing judges, senators, congressmen and politicians all over the US.

Movies were made depicting the situation including "Meet John Doe" with Gary Cooper.

Standard Oil is well chronicled. BTW, many legal actions occurred related to Standard Oil including after the break up.

It was a horror story about a man and his decendants who almost pulled the US into a dictatorship.

With regard to citations, I'm not aware of a single source and people usually pay me for the kind of research required to give you a working understanding of the cases and history. It's too bad that our educational institutions only glance over the story.



"Our" educational institutions, may they be left not one stone resting upon another and the ground they are on sown with salt, gave the same account to me, less some very interesting details that you have provided. Thank you, I appreciate your attention to detail.

"Price wars" have two results: lower profits for the competition and for the one "waging" the war. Without improvements in efficiencies, it is just as likely that the wager will fail as it is the wagee. The wager must also raise their prices after a "successful" price war in order to make back their losses, creating an opening for a competitor to step in and undercut them. Or, as with Microsoft having their cash-cow be Office and not Windows, one product has to be able to cover the losses made in trying to undercut the competition with some other product. But, just like before, that creates an opportunity for competition. I see this as why Microsoft reacted with such vigor toward the Massachusetts ODF decision.

The only way a price war can work is if the price can be dropped without any later raising it back up above "market" rates. Regardless of how those efficiencies are achieved, excluding force and fraud of course, the real winners are the consumers. And if I DON'T lower my price with an increase in efficiency, the Fed.Gov will prosecute me for price fixing. Catch-22, or fishing for campaign contributions.

I recommend the chapter on Standard Oil, and for that matter the rest of the book, _How Capilalism Saved America_, by Thomas DiLorenzo.

Microsoft? I no more begrudge them their success with Windows than I begrudge GE their success with Lexan. Any prosecution is too late to matter, just as Standard Oil was losing market share, IBM had to deal with Amdahl, DEC and the other mainframe producers, while Apple and the free *NIX environments have equaled or surpassed Windows the entire time. Most of Windows success is due to marketing and exclusive OEM installation contracts, both of which are wearing mighty thin.

Looking back in 100 years, the very short life-span of Microsoft's "monopoly" will be seen clearly. The only reason it seems like a long time and so terrible to us is that we are living through it.

I couldn't agree more with your sentiment, that Microsoft (and Standard Oil for that matter) deserves prosecution for their obfuscated and missleading EULA and for their deliberate sabotage; their foibles and corruption should be plastered across the sky for all to see, and especially the failings of their products deserve to be known far and wide.

But no one was ever, EVER forced to buy their products. The only agency capable of forcing someone to pay for them at gun point is government.

Post a comment

A free account is needed to post. Write your comment here first: your text is kept in this browser while you sign up or log in, and is waiting for you when you come back.

Your message:
|||||
10
Markdown: **bold**, *italic*, [text](https://link), - lists, > quotes, $x^2$ for math. Formatting help

Sign up and post (it is free)  or  Log in and post