US complaints to the WTO may fan the flames of Linux
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| Author | Content |
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| pogson Apr 24, 2007 9:55 AM EDT |
China is a huge market for computer tech but many cannot afford top of the line stuff and that other OS, too. China has recently developed their own PCs in-house and GNU/Linux and FLOSS gives them a running start on software development. The whining of MSFT and Uncle Sam will likely stimulate the hardware and software industry based on Linux, just like manufacturing was stimulated by the need for hard cash in an earlier generation. China is a powerhouse and is not going to be jerked around by political opportunists. China is big enough to do its own OLPC where C stands for citizen... and they are bound to export machines running Linux sooner or later. |
| jimf Apr 24, 2007 10:09 AM EDT |
> they are bound to export machines running Linux sooner or later. Yep, But I don't expect to see those. MS will undoubtedly call their import unfair competition.... |
| tuxchick Apr 24, 2007 10:24 AM EDT |
to microshaft, 'unfair competition' is redundant. |
| jsusanka Apr 24, 2007 11:00 AM EDT |
man does microsoft have the WTO in it's back pocket or what. isn't the 3 dollar magic deal suppose to solve the piracy problem? I think the WTO should just disband before it starts wwIII. To China: tell the WTO to stick it where the sun doesn't shine and go with Linux. You will better off now and in the long run. the WTO is nothing but a good old boy CEO club that forces their shoddy goods on the world. of course this is just my opinion. |
| lcafiero Apr 24, 2007 12:24 PM EDT |
>of course this is just my opinion. And, jsusanka, you'd be largely correct in your assessment. The WTO serves no useful purpose other than to prop up large multinationals at the expense of the common good. Gates in China -- sounds like the sequel to the opera "Nixon in China" -- shilling his $3 XP is laughable. It's like standing at the shore and telling the tide to stop rolling in. It will be interesting to see where China takes this, not to mention realizing the huge opportunity for GNU/Linux and FLOSS that this is. Doesn't China -- or developers in China -- already have a distro they've developed specifically geared for those in China? I seem to have read this somewhere before, but does someone have more information about this? |
| DarrenR114 Apr 24, 2007 12:46 PM EDT |
@Icafiero: Perhaps this is what you were thinking of: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Flag_Linux |
| hkwint Apr 24, 2007 3:20 PM EDT |
Quoting:To China: tell the WTO to stick it where the sun doesn't shine and go with Linux. Isn't that what they are doing as we type? I believe it is. Intel doesn't make MID's with Linux without a reason, and moreover without a vision about the future. And the future, that's what those MID devices are all about. That means, Intel envisions the future with Linux. What I ask myself is this: If you steal a $300 WinXP CD, that's criminal. However, Win going down to $3 lowers the bar of feeling guilty after stealing it. It is also an admittance, that selling Windows doesn't cost Microsoft anything at the moment. If it's only $3 in some countries, then why do we pay $300 for it? Can I complain at the WTO that this is discrimination? Oh, of course, the WTO doesn't listen to me since I can't afford to pay the US government to tell to the WTO what I need. |
| Sander_Marechal Apr 24, 2007 3:30 PM EDT |
Just to note: The $3,- XP in question is the infamous starter edition. The crippleware that has no networking and only lets you run 2 applications at the same time. It's no comparison to the $300 retail version we have out here. However, that doesn't fly for the $3,- Office because that's the real deal, only without PowerPoint. |
| dcparris Apr 24, 2007 3:34 PM EDT |
No networking? At least the customers will be safe(r). ;-) |
| nikkels Apr 24, 2007 4:57 PM EDT |
Just to give this a twist.....
The americans complain to China...about piracy ?
That's funny.
I live in Thailand, and here we have some really huge shops, in the middle of the public eye, where you can buy pirated stuff for far less than $1 a program.
I personally have asked the owners of those shops who there customers are.
Result ( and a long story made short ) : far over 60% are americans, or in real nubmers , about 1000 people a day, every day come and buy the stuff here.
( these figures are spread over 6 separate buildings that I personally know and visit for hardware related issues.
If america wants to clean the world, they should start looking at home. It's faster, easier and cheaper to start cleaning your own house, than someone elses far away. I hope I didn't insult anyone, but this is the naked truth |
| jimf Apr 24, 2007 5:14 PM EDT |
> If america wants to clean the world, they should start looking at home Funny thing about that. Most American Citizens have been saying that for years ;-) |
| Scott_Ruecker Apr 24, 2007 5:17 PM EDT |
nikkels: You did not insult me, you insulted Microsoft..which is fine with me. :-) Your right though, but cleaning your house requires you to admit its dirty...something M$ is reluctant to do. |
| jimf Apr 24, 2007 5:31 PM EDT |
> you insulted Microsoft.. I would be insulted if anyone, besides bill gates, thinks that MS is America... |
| bigg Apr 24, 2007 5:45 PM EDT |
> I live in Thailand, and here we have some really huge shops, in the middle of the public eye, where you can buy pirated stuff for far less than $1 a program. But there's not a lot of money in Thailand. Microsoft is gunning for the increasingly wealthy Chinese businesses and upper income bracket households. You can have all the lock-in you want in Thailand, as soon as they raise the price and shut down piracy, everyone's going to Linux. It appears the greatest damage comes from professors in countries like Thailand. They do Microsoft in the US and Europe, then go back to their countries and refuse to use anything else. They're a small part of the population, but they do most computer training, serving as technology gatekeepers. |
| jimf Apr 24, 2007 6:33 PM EDT |
> serving as technology gatekeepers. Or jailers? |
| dcparris Apr 24, 2007 7:07 PM EDT |
I think Nikkels is trying to say that many of the folks buying the "pirated" software are Americans abroad. In other words, an American goes to Thailand, sees cheap copies of Windows (I thought all copies of Windows were cheap, but hey...), and buys them from the locals selling them. So we become part of our own problem. American-on-American crime in a foreign country. I remember my Sergeant telling me in Korea how, if I had enough money, I could probably pay the Koreans to clone me - in recognition of their skill at cloning popular brands. It's a bit hazy now, but that might have been part of his lecture about being careful what you buy. I think they were trying to prevent us from supporting the counterfeiting industry there. I left my checkbook on Okinawa, so I didn't support any industry much. ;-) |
| jimf Apr 24, 2007 10:09 PM EDT |
> So we become part of our own problem. Well, I'f you regard piracy of the MS OS's and programs as an American problem, or' as a problem for anyone other than MS, that may make sense. I don't believe a word of it. Arguably, Bill was the one who started off the whole concept of proprietary software, way back in his club days. I thought it was shortsighted and small minded then, and, it's certainly proven to be that, and worse. Frankly, I think that MS has always reaped what it's sewn, and piracy is a part of it's rich and noble heritage. It may take time, but people will come around to the better OS. Piracy? That's just another MS excuse for failure, as is $3 Windows. |
| hkwint Apr 24, 2007 10:16 PM EDT |
Quoting:The $3,- XP in question is the infamous starter edition. The crippleware that has no networking Good for MS. Because if the crippleware would have networking enabled, whole China would know how bad it was within days. |
| dcparris Apr 25, 2007 2:15 AM EDT |
jimf: I agree with what you're saying. I just had the impression some were missing the other poster's point, and was trying to help them see where he was coming from. hkwint: That's assuming someone hasn't already found a hack to make the networking work. ;-) |
| hkwint Apr 25, 2007 7:40 AM EDT |
Quoting:Bill was the one who started off the whole concept of proprietary software Sounds interesting. I wasn't yet born back then (probably), so does this mean Bill Gates invented proprietary software? AT&T software was also closed back in that days, not? |
| jimf Apr 25, 2007 10:21 AM EDT |
@hkwint, I'm overgeneralizing. The short version is that Billy issued a letter stating that he didn't want club members using his code. This in a time / atmosphere where code was freely contributed for use by everyone. Soon after it became clear that what he really wanted was to get paid for it. My contention is that Billy's statement and attitude at that time really set the stage for the kind of mean attitude that ultimately expressed itself in MS's (EULA) license, and the proprietary attitude that's still with us today. And yes, AT&T software was 'closed' in the sense that it was a corporate entity, but, the emphasis was much more on the hardware and interface than the actual code ownership. Again, Bill's move pushed the emphasis toward the idea that the code itself was a proprietary element that could be sold for profit. Of course, Corporations loved the concept. One really has to wonder what world would be like if Gates had been less focused on the money, and a little more on humanity. Who knows, he could have been the savior of the computer world.... Or not.... Just saw this one: http://www.technewsworld.com/story/aP0qVhszVyk6TI/Gates-Gets... Now why does that scare the hell out of me.... |
| nikkels Apr 27, 2007 11:56 PM EDT |
Start quote
I think Nikkels is trying to say that many of the folks buying the "pirated" software are Americans abroad.
End quote I am sorry, I am not used to write articles :-) so I took it for granted that you knew what I was thinking ( Hmm ) 'I was talking about American ( and of course all other ) tourists coming on holiday in Thailand. please note, that it was just an observation over a period of almost 10 years. I was not criticising . |
| dcparris Apr 28, 2007 12:54 AM EDT |
Well, American tourists in Thailand are "abroad". Some Americans working in foreign countries may behave similarly, but I have no idea. I didn't see much black market type activities in the towns I visited in Europe and Okinawa. Korea was something of an exception for me. I spent 18 months in the UK and didn't notice that kind of thing. Not saying it didn't exist, but that I didn't notice it. It certainly isn't blatant, like people selling black market wares openly in a fast food restaurant. I didn't get out enough in Okinawa to see it. Mind you, I would not have been seeking software in the late 1980's/early '90's. I didn't have enough money to buy a computer. Some of us copied each other's cassette tapes, but that was the extent of our "piracy". ;-) |
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