'sexist' post
|
| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| ColonelPanik Dec 16, 2008 5:39 PM EDT |
Y'all know who should resign. |
| tuxchick Dec 16, 2008 5:46 PM EDT |
The rule in Debian is it's OK to be as obnoxious, offensive, and as off-topic as you like. This guy even bragged about it. But it is not OK to object to it. |
| ColonelPanik Dec 16, 2008 6:07 PM EDT |
TC, That could make me leave Debian. We can and should point out that anything
that demeans another is barnyard acid and its never welcome. They will have to pry the sarcasm from my cold dead lips! |
| Sander_Marechal Dec 16, 2008 7:05 PM EDT |
Quoting:This guy even bragged about it. Source? I can't find any reaction from Josselin about this. All I see is a thee-way discussion between Miriam Ruiz, Noah Slater and Federico Di Gregorio on debian-devel. |
| tracyanne Dec 16, 2008 7:20 PM EDT |
I thought that (the post that started the whole controversy) was pretty funny. Is it just me, but I really can't see anything about that post that calls for getting bent out of shape. |
| tuxchick Dec 16, 2008 7:21 PM EDT |
In his blog. He's some kind of great freedom crusader, or something:
http://np237.livejournal.com/20741.htmlQuoting: I will go on shocking these people. And they won’t like it more than in the past. Every time one of them climbs on her high horse to take a pathetic and patronizing stance while totally missing the point, it will bring a bit of fun. So, like so many jerks, he wants it both ways-- he wants both approval and to upset people. |
| tracyanne Dec 16, 2008 7:31 PM EDT |
I've just read the blog you linked to. Sorry Carla, but we won't ever see eye to eye on this, I don't have a problem with the bloke. |
| tracyanne Dec 16, 2008 7:41 PM EDT |
This http://malsain.org/~joss/women.jpg is sexist. The bloke is not, nor was his parody. |
| tuxchick Dec 16, 2008 7:42 PM EDT |
He posts an off-color off-topic "joke" on a developer's announce list, and she's the one who should get over it? TA, the issue is not whether you have a problem with him, which seems to be a common response-- "I think it's OK so Miriam shouldn't be bothered either." In effect you're saying that Miriam is wrong to be bugged and should just get over it. Well that's the cheap way out, and the excuse that jerks of all stripes have been using since forever. A lot of hostility is thinly-disguised as humor. I guess you missed the bit where the disguise came off, leaving the hostility:Quoting: Every time one of them climbs on her high horse to take a pathetic and patronizing stance while totally missing the point, it will bring a bit of fun. What a sweetheart. And just a few weeks ago Debian posted a public request for more help so they could get Lenny out the door. Maybe if they didn't tolerate trolls so much they wouldn't be short of help. |
| tracyanne Dec 16, 2008 7:43 PM EDT |
Carla, see my post just prior to yours. |
| tracyanne Dec 16, 2008 7:52 PM EDT |
[text removed because I posted to the wrong thread] |
| caitlyn Dec 16, 2008 8:23 PM EDT |
I'm with Carla/tuxchick on this one. This isn't the first such incident on Debian lists but rather the latest in a long string. That's one of the reasons whu Debian women came into existence in the first place. The latest example may not be the most egregious but, sorry, Tracyanne, in light of the history there I don't see how it can be considered anything but sexist and totally inappropriate. I decided a long time ago not to be involved with Debian because I found the community most unwelcoming. I have volunteered for Vector Linux because it is a prime example of an open, welcoming, and tolerant community. Perhaps if enough people walked away from Debian, not just developers but users as well, the correct message would be sent. |
| tracyanne Dec 16, 2008 8:32 PM EDT |
Quoting:sorry, Tracyanne, in light of the history there I don't see how it can be considered anything but sexist and totally inappropriate. Inappropriate Yes. Sexist No. Absolutely the wrong place and time to post his parody, it was completely off topic. But there was nothing sexist about it. |
| Steven_Rosenber Dec 17, 2008 2:53 AM EDT |
I just took a look. Maybe 80 percent stupid, 15 percent unintelligible, 5 percent sexist. Mostly just stupid and very 12-year-old-ish. |
| jezuch Dec 17, 2008 3:02 AM EDT |
I'm disappointed that nobody linked to the post that Jos was parodying: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2008/11/msg000... My reaction to that "joke" was "what an a**hole". Great freedom crusader all right. |
| jezuch Dec 17, 2008 3:13 AM EDT |
And BTW, "For those who care about lesbians" (http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/01/msg000...) was a response to another post (http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/01/msg000...) and there was a reaction to that, too (http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/01/msg000...). It seems that these kinds of parodies are a popular way to express disagreement in Debian. |
| bigg Dec 17, 2008 8:58 AM EDT |
I don't know how anyone can read that and not view it as sexist. That anyone would post something like that, sexist or not, and not be banned speaks volumes about Debian. |
| Laika Dec 17, 2008 9:00 AM EDT |
Quoting:Perhaps if enough people walked away from Debian, not just developers but users as well, the correct message would be sent. From a user's point of view, it's an important asset that Debian has hundreds of active developers plus thousands of unofficial volunteer contributors. Together they get a lot of good work done, even if making timely releases seems to be an ongoing problem for Debian. In general, I'm quite happy with the wide selection and high quality of Debian's packages, and Debian's commitment to the free software ideals. That's why I don't consider walking away from Debian. Having a high level of noise (and a couple of insensitive clods) at the Debian mailing lists is probably just a side effect of having more developers than any other distro. I'd expect that Vector Linux would also have more controversial posts and occasional flame wars on its mailing lists if it had as many developers as Debian. It's unfortunate that the whole developer community gets a bad reputation because of a couple of loud-mouthed individuals, but maybe that's unavoidable. Still, you can always choose to ignore the background noise and enjoy the many positive aspects of Debian. Dogs bark but the caravan rolls on... |
| bigg Dec 17, 2008 9:32 AM EDT |
> probably just a side effect of having more developers than any other distro No - it's a side effect of Debian not being professional. Any professional organization would get rid of trash like this kid. > It's unfortunate that the whole developer community gets a bad reputation because of a couple of loud-mouthed individuals Actually, that's fortunate, because they are choosing to let little kids post messages like that and do nothing about it. It's not just the individuals. Anyone who lets it go is in full agreement with it. |
| dinotrac Dec 17, 2008 12:05 PM EDT |
Oh my, my. What a conundrum. I agree with tuxchick much more often than with tracyanne, but, this time around, the Aussie's got it right. I read the post over and over and over - which is three overs more than it warrants. Unless reference to "chicks" is, by itself, sexist (ummm.....wait a minute, Carla -- tuxCHICK?), the post is just stupid. If it's meant to be offensive to women, the poor little nitwit sure does have a lot to learn, even with the reaction he got. Although, I suppose, if more women put down their dustrags, turned off their stoves, and had their husband or boyfriend show them how to use a computer, a few might get to that post and be offended by being lumped in with werewolves, but -- nothing a few roses couldn't fix. |
| Bob_Robertson Dec 17, 2008 12:46 PM EDT |
Can't we all just press delete and move on? What group of more than one person doesn't have an idiot or two? Dino, don't dis werewolves. That's offensive. |
| dinotrac Dec 17, 2008 12:48 PM EDT |
Bob - I have nothing but respect for werewolves. They just tend to lose out whenever the chicks get up on their hight horses over the pigs. It's a zoo, I tell you. |
| tuxchick Dec 17, 2008 1:20 PM EDT |
Quoting: What group of more than one person doesn't have an idiot or two? None :). The point I have been not-very-successfully trying to make is giving trolls and ***hats free rein, while jumping all over the people who object to their garbage, is counter-productive. A slap in the face to the people who are working hard and not going out of their way to be obnoxious. Idiots and trolls are perfectly free to remain idiots and trolls-- but it is reasonable to expect them to change their behavior. He made it clear that he has a contemptuous, judgmental attitude towards the people he works with and he likes stirring up trouble. Why should a person like this get a free pass? Top-posters get treated more harshly than dorks like this in Debian-land. The right thing to do would have been for him to apologize, and to serve up his brand of humor where it's appreciated and on-topic. People do this all the time, it's not an abnormal act. It even happens here on LXer. Instead he made it clear that he's not willing to behave in a civil manner; just another self-centered jerk. For some weird reason a lot of Linux geeks love to deny this with every fiber of their beings, but civility and trying to get along is as important as technical skills. Maybe more so, because a group that works well together elevates everyone in it. In this particular case, telling Miriam to shove off and get over it is misguided and rude. She's brave enough to call this guy on his cr@p, and all she gets is an additional portion of disrespect. Not taken seriously at all. There should be a word for people who toady to bullies and jerks. Oh yeah, "Debian leadership." |
| tuxchick Dec 17, 2008 1:25 PM EDT |
OK I know I'm railing on and on here, please indulge me :). One more thing to think about-- instead of defending crud like this as a defect in the people who are bothered by it, ask yourself "What good does it do? How does it make Debian better and stronger, how does it improve the software we're working on?" |
| bigg Dec 17, 2008 1:41 PM EDT |
> "What good does it do? How does it make Debian better and stronger, how does it improve the software we're working on?" Precisely. That's what keeps going through my mind. Why should putting up with this guy be a requirement for other project members? What does his post accomplish that will help push Lenny out the door? Where is the leadership? |
| dinotrac Dec 17, 2008 1:42 PM EDT |
TC -- Thanks for the reining in. I managed to get caught up in the facts and lose the point. From that perspective, you make sense. Certainly, IMHO, the original point deserved more derision than hissy-fits, but the climb-upon the complainers was not called for. |
| azerthoth Dec 17, 2008 1:42 PM EDT |
I once read the "Bill of Un-Rights" one of which was
'You do not have the right to not be offended' The problem with anyone disagreeing with the one being offended is that we are so PC that it's nearly a stoning offense to look at someone and say 'your little world is not all'. Anyone who feels offended is automatically right and the offender is automatically wrong, regardless of the slight. You can NOT go through life without offending someone, somehow. For the most part, it's the person offended whose sense of self is so fragile as to not be able to take insignificant or even imagined pokes. Do I sound a bit insensitive? ####### waaaaah, the US has gone so far overboard with political correctness and sensitivity that it will soon be a suable offense to hold an opposing viewpoint, because it just might hurt someones feelings. |
| dinotrac Dec 17, 2008 1:48 PM EDT |
azertoth - Ah man, you have no idea how much that hurts my feelings. Here I was, thinking I had an unusual gift and you say everybody's got it. Apologize. Apologize now. Otherwise, I will be forced to wag my finger at you. |
| tuxchick Dec 17, 2008 1:57 PM EDT |
Well azerthoth, you're right about differing viewpoints. I don't see where that makes it wrong to feel offended, or to tell the offending person how you feel. Or to be willing to do some give-and-take and try to get along. We do it all the time in meatspace. |
| dumper4311 Dec 17, 2008 2:03 PM EDT |
@dino: Werewolves shed. With chicks, it's always feathers everywhere. There's just no way to win, my friend. Which of course, leaves us pigs out in the mud. |
| dinotrac Dec 17, 2008 2:05 PM EDT |
meatspace? Uh oh -- better stay out of the grillspace. |
| dinotrac Dec 17, 2008 2:06 PM EDT |
mud - mmmmmm - warm and oozy and soft. What could be better? |
| Scott_Ruecker Dec 17, 2008 2:15 PM EDT |
What Debian needs is a real moderator, a real one who can call the devs out when making idiotic statements like that. Regardless of whether you are personally offended or not, the statement is childish and stupid and as has been debated here, sexist. If Debian had any kind of real mods in their forums, that would have been seen and moderated.. Being a professional only goes so far, its acting like one that takes you the rest of the way.. my 2 cents.. PS - Feel the way you want too, but if you are a professional, then act like one.. |
| dinotrac Dec 17, 2008 2:18 PM EDT |
> but if you are a professional, then act like one.. Ya gotta consider the profession, though... |
| ColonelPanik Dec 17, 2008 2:25 PM EDT |
The Titanic was built by professionals. |
| Scott_Ruecker Dec 17, 2008 2:34 PM EDT |
Come on guys, you know what I meant. And by making a little fun of my statement, you are not saying I am wrong..;-) |
| gus3 Dec 17, 2008 2:35 PM EDT |
True. It was also rendered un-seaworthy by dilettantes who had no business even looking at specs, let alone changing them. |
| dinotrac Dec 17, 2008 2:41 PM EDT |
Scott: Yes we are. |
| tuxchick Dec 17, 2008 2:43 PM EDT |
Mud, meat, feathers... note to self: bring own food to LXer picnic. |
| Bob_Robertson Dec 17, 2008 2:52 PM EDT |
Scott, ok, I'll grant as fact that "authority" can smooth the waters (to mix metaphors shamelessly). But then, who is the "authority"? What are their limits? Who guards the guards? Debian is a wide-open forum, pretty darn close to pure democracy. Once in a while, maybe more often than some people want to see it, the failings of democracy are demonstrated. Maybe, with the near god-like reverence with which "democracy" has been endowed, when one of its shortcomings is seen people in fact do "pile on" in an emotional reaction since their illusion is being threatened. Debian does have a moderator, they are elected once a year. But no one could read every post on every mailing list. It's much easier to just kill-file the offensive. But such an act would require the receiver to exercise their own responsibility. Not everyone wants to admit they are responsible for their own actions _and_ reactions. |
| caitlyn Dec 17, 2008 3:01 PM EDT |
In a "pure democracy" you have pure majority rules. That means that 51% can vote the other 49% on top boxcars and take them off to camp, right? I know I'm treading awfully close to Godwin territory if not actually into it but the comparison is apt. Every successful democratic government has check and balances to limit the democracy and protect minority rights. Debian lacks such checks and balances. That may make it "pure democracy" but it also makes it a place where I don't want to live. |
| Bob_Robertson Dec 17, 2008 3:10 PM EDT |
> Every successful democratic government has check and balances to limit the democracy and protect minority rights. They've also failed, after about 200 years, over loose fiscal policy. But anyway, > Debian lacks such checks and balances. That may make it "pure democracy" but it also makes it a place where I don't want to live. Debian has the ultimate check/balance, one which has been taken away in the United States: Secession. When Debian loses enough developers because of antics like this, they will become unviable and fail. Or a small core (corps?) will reform without the idiots, or maybe the idiots will wonder why no one will play with them anymore and realize they've been idiots. (insert statement concerning totalitarian systems and trains running on time) At this point, it's still an individual choice. That is something I never want to lose, even if it means deleting posts from idiots. |
| Scott_Ruecker Dec 17, 2008 3:24 PM EDT |
ok, so they have one, ONE mod? you have got to be kidding me. ONE??? that's insane and now makes the whole thing make sense.. They have NO moderators. One Mod? for a organization that is that big? I am still blown away. Well what it really means is that there is not a single other person who goes to that forum who will take it upon themselves to maybe, maybe go out of their way a little and tell the moderator that something is up in this or that thread? I makes me sick for the Debian community and makes me think they are all closer to trolls than devs. Yeah, that's right I said it, Trolls. The reason stuff like this does not happen, or does not last long in LXer's forums is that if I miss it, there will be a hundred others who will not, and they will care enough to tell me about it. That is what Debian is missing..people who care. To stand by and let this happen in the forums and do nothing about it is to be complaisant to it. |
| Bob_Robertson Dec 17, 2008 3:33 PM EDT |
> That is what Debian is missing..people who care.
I'd say that was an overgeneralization. However, it's very clear that the unmoderated form of the Debian forums is not for everyone. Hooray for voluntary interaction! The fact that I don't have to participate (and Debian-User is the only Debian list I do participate in) makes me proud to be an anarchist. |
| tuxchick Dec 17, 2008 3:50 PM EDT |
Bob, what you're describing is abdication of responsibility, a passive-aggressive cop-out. Scott is right-- people who care speak out, they stick around and try to make things better, they don't walk away and leave the messes for someone else to clean up. |
| Bob_Robertson Dec 17, 2008 4:08 PM EDT |
No, TC, I'm talking about "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen." People who care do stay and work it out, moderators or not. Moderators are one method of control, peer pressure and ostracism is another. "Debian" chooses to do the latter, which Scott objects to. "passive-aggressive cop-out" I know you don't like me, but please take my arguments at face value. Debian works for those developers and users for which Debian works. That's just life. Scott wants moderators, so Debian isn't for him. Suggesting that Debian isn't for him is not a "passive-aggressive cop-out", it's a recognition that not everyone thrives in the same environment. If, instead, you wanted to say that you disagree with my defending unmoderated fora, please do so. No need to be insulting to do so either. And I'm not defending them, any more than I defend volcanos. Lots of people wouldn't be comfortable standing in pools of lava, either. |
| tracyanne Dec 17, 2008 4:18 PM EDT |
As usual, while I was sleeping yet another thread moved on. I'll have to stop sleeping. |
| jezuch Dec 17, 2008 4:26 PM EDT |
Quoting:the statement is childish and stupid and as has been debated here, sexist Yes, it's childish and stupid, but I don't think it's sexist. Or rather it is, but not in a way y'all seem to imply. It was a typical play on stereotypes. So, if anything, I perceive it as more offensive to *men*. Or maybe it's just me. |
| Sander_Marechal Dec 17, 2008 4:49 PM EDT |
Quoting:I'll have to stop sleeping. You can sleep when you're dead. |
| Scott_Ruecker Dec 17, 2008 5:19 PM EDT |
I will agree I was offended, offended that he would say something that assumes I agree with it. When I most certainly do not. He speaks for himself, not me, not ever. |
| tuxchick Dec 17, 2008 5:31 PM EDT |
Sorry Bob, I was responding to your comments, not saying mean things about you personally. I'm sorry I wasn't clearer about that. Of course I like you, come visit and I'll even let you drive the tractor. |
| Bob_Robertson Dec 17, 2008 6:18 PM EDT |
Well then, I think calling my position just a passive-aggressive cop-out is offensive to my public-school inspired passive-aggressive attitudes. I'm a victim of a systematic destructive institutional establishment. I cannot be blamed. I love Debian |
| tracyanne Dec 17, 2008 6:44 PM EDT |
Quoting:I will agree I was offended, offended that he would say something that assumes I agree with it. I stopped being offended by arbitry offensiveness a long time ago, there really isn't any point point to getting myself riled up about things that I might find offensive, and I encounter more than enough arbitrary things I might find offensive if I put my mind to it, especially those people that come to your door peddling their delusions, in spite of the numerous times you tell them to P One Five Five off. The bloke might be equal opportunity offensive, but at least he's not peddling delusions. |
| Scott_Ruecker Dec 17, 2008 6:47 PM EDT |
Believe me tracyanne, I did not lose any sleep over it. But taken at face value, I 'disagreed' and/or was 'offended' in my own way. He may not be peddling delusions to himself..but that is his reality he lives in, not mine. |
| tuxchick Dec 17, 2008 9:01 PM EDT |
Bob, I blame all of society :) |
| Bob_Robertson Dec 18, 2008 12:41 PM EDT |
http://www.itwire.com/content/view/22371/1154/ "Debian developer Josselin Mouette has had his privileges of posting to the announcement mailing list for developers withdrawn, following an offensive post to the list in November." Well, Scott, he's been "moderated", very publicly, which I consider far more effective than a simple deletion of the offending post. Sufficient? (is that good enough for ya? Huh? Huh?) |
| caitlyn Dec 18, 2008 6:53 PM EDT |
Yes, it's good enough. It sends a message to others who might want to post such things. It's the first step in changing the Debian culture. It says that the Debian community does have standards, however nebulous and poorly defined those may be. Common sense can be better than strict definitions in any case provided you have people who actually have common sense. Of course it won't change the minds of those who don't get it and are too closed minded to entertain the idea that they might be offending someone and that deliberately doing so is a bad idea. It won't make immature children suddenly mature. Having said all of that this is a positive step. |
| Scott_Ruecker Dec 18, 2008 9:15 PM EDT |
Yes, I would say its sufficient for me. He's lucky that I am not the moderator because I would have used my special 'mod' powers to cause thunderbolts of Zeus to rain down upon his head..;-) |
| tracyanne Dec 18, 2008 9:51 PM EDT |
\ \ \ \|\ \ \ \o/ | / \ |
| wjl Dec 19, 2008 7:45 AM EDT |
Hmmm. Having read the discussion until here, I still can't help thinking that the "high horse" is just a very common idiom around where I live (that's Germany, in case someone doesn't know). It means basically the same as being "high nosed", or to "live in an ivory tower" (just a mix of those I think). Which of course does *not* mean that the guy should have said "sorry", once someone complained. Anyway, I'm with Bob - I'm also an anarchist and a Debian guy. I think this is a good example that communities can exist without much regulation. |
| tuxchick Dec 19, 2008 11:56 AM EDT |
Yep, the Debian way of allowing trolls and buttheads free rein really works-- now Manoj is stepping down, other devs may follow, and our old friend Joss is in the thick of it: http://www.itwire.com/content/view/22391/1154/ http://np237.livejournal.com/21451.html And no, there are not lines of devs waiting to take their places. |
| bigg Dec 19, 2008 12:27 PM EDT |
You're missing the point TC, the purpose of the Debian project is to allow developers the freedom to do anything they want. You seem to be under the impression that Debian exists to produce an OS. It would be inappropriate to offend those with no social skills by expecting them to act as if they are human beings. |
| tuxchick Dec 19, 2008 12:46 PM EDT |
Wups, yeah bigg, I make that mistake all the time. |
| TxtEdMacs Dec 19, 2008 12:47 PM EDT |
I have a question: Quoting:... expecting them to act as if they are human beings Implicitly I see this as implying your high regard for all things human whereas I see neither citation nor a mere attempt to buttress your case with facts. Therefore, I accuse you of making a bigg logical error that completely negates your argument. [Warning: I know there are some serious tags buried in there somewhere. However, at the moment I cannot determine their placement. Sorry, but I am open to suggestions.] |
| Scott_Ruecker Dec 19, 2008 2:32 PM EDT |
I think that if you are a racist and/or a sexist, you should keep it to yourself. And if you can't, I think you deserve to be ridiculed in the most embarrassing and public way possible. Because if that doesn't teach you the error of your ways, then it won't really matter which means you are most deserving of it. All of it. That's what I think. |
| azerthoth Dec 19, 2008 2:45 PM EDT |
I have a narrow focus of narrow minded prejudice. I am prejudiced against Linux using drummers *grin* |
| Scott_Ruecker Dec 19, 2008 2:52 PM EDT |
LOL I guess I'm screwed huh? LOL!! Too Funny!! I almost spit coffee all over my computer when I read that Azer. I meant what I said though, I feel absolutely ZERO compassion for that guy, he brought it on himself and deserves EVERYTHING he gets because of it. This is the 21st century, not the 19th. And even if it was still the 19th century, it doesn't make what he said or why one iota more accurate or less unconscionable of a statement. ..oh if only I had been the moderator.. SHAZAM! Lightning from the sky on your head!! |
| tuxchick Dec 19, 2008 4:02 PM EDT |
OW! Scott, your intentions are pure, but your aim needs work. |
| caitlyn Dec 19, 2008 4:08 PM EDT |
I'm with Scott on this. The problem we've seen in the Linux community is that any time any woman raises the issue of sexism she is mocked, ridiculed, and generally dismissed by way too many in the community. It's not just the Debian lists. Look at Slashdot anytime the issue of gender is raised or an organization like Linuxchix or Debian Women is even mentioned. Look at the responses to any of Carla's articles about particularly egregious examples. I could go on and on. I don't know how many time I've been called a man-hater or worse and I'm anything but. The problem is one of education. Sometimes the best educational tool in the world is a 2x4 applied to the head. Ridicule is a very good tool as well. In the U.S. racism is not acceptable in polite society. For some reason sexism all too often still is. |
| Bob_Robertson Dec 19, 2008 4:10 PM EDT |
As an interesting side note to this whole discussion, Recently, an economics professor gave a guest lecture (which he has given two or three times before, over a number of years) addressing possible explanations of the "gender gap", "race gap" and "glass ceiling" in wages and business. The gist of the talk is that race and gender differences are erased if statistical tendencies of choice and lifestyle are taken into account, as well as the statistical issue of the "bell curve", where "males" make up the majority of people both at the "high" and "low" ends of the scale in terms of ability. I see the result of his inquiry as reinforcing the ability of the individual to make the most of what they can and will choose to do. Limits are vanishing as individual abilities mean more than class, race or sex. A "GoodThing". But days later, the "economics department" of the college where he gave his talk published an apology for his "insensitive" remarks, and has declared him to persona non grata. It seems someone didn't like having their sacred cow lanced. If you're interested, http://www.lewrockwell.com/block/block-arch.html it's easy to find the subject. |
| ColonelPanik Dec 19, 2008 5:38 PM EDT |
Some how the picture of Scott as the Chuck Norris of Mods just doesn't..... |
| Scott_Ruecker Dec 19, 2008 5:59 PM EDT |
LOL!! No no no, not Chuck Norris, but the Norse God Thor..yeah, that one just flowed out of me..can't fight it when the words start writing themselves. Scott/Thor/Forum Mod..bringing the 'Hammer' down on 'smooth spotted' posts in a forum near you.. ;-) I'd still have Zeus on speed dial for one of those 'Bolts from the Heavens' when I needed one though. |
| azerthoth Dec 19, 2008 8:58 PM EDT |
How about something more inimical, if you look at my nickname and are up to speed on H.P. Lovercraft, it's a spin on Azathoth, AKA The Blind Idiot God.Quoting:Outside the ordered universe is that amorphous blight of nethermost confusion which blasphemes and bubbles at the center of all infinity—the boundless daemon sultan Azathoth |
| Scott_Ruecker Dec 19, 2008 9:17 PM EDT |
Its nice to know you have a positive self image...lol!! |
| Bob_Robertson Dec 20, 2008 9:26 AM EDT |
A friend of mine tried to charter "White Male Heterosexuals" as a club through his university, since various opposites and variations on that idea were already chartered. I'm sure you can imagine what those clubs might have been named. They didn't just refuse the charter, they threw him out of the office as a racist, sexist pig. I'm all for celebrating individuality. It's the hypocrisy that galls me. |
| TxtEdMacs Dec 20, 2008 11:17 AM EDT |
Machiner, Your post reads like a lot of grit is grinding your gears. Hence, I respectfully suggest you get over yourself. For example you make a lot of really startling assertions without any attempt to add any credibility to your comments. Nine year old pretending to be twenty year olds? How did you make this determination? This and other statements seem more akin to your pulling the facts out of your smelly posterior. Talk about hubris ... please go cry about your unwarranted mistreatment elsewhere or back up your statements with facts not your biased perceptions. A**holes like you remind me of idiots that thought themselves superior whereas their forte was idle talk and the perception they were entitled. All just due to their being male. My daughter's science project far exceeded their efforts, they were beaten and badly. I sense form the tone and content of your post, you fit the profile. Please take your crybaby tears out of sight, there is something about male's blubbering about their mistreatment and unfairness disconcerting particularly when I doubt the words. Tag all this as uncharacteristically serious, thanks. |
| bigg Dec 20, 2008 12:01 PM EDT |
Any chance of banning machiner? This isn't the first time by any means that the guy has made this forum into a family unfriendly place. Is his post (independent of the thinking) something a young kid should be reading? |
| jdixon Dec 20, 2008 12:04 PM EDT |
> .I can't buy a pack of smokes without... Machiner, as has been noted before, LXer is a public forum which may be accessed by children. If you can't watch your language, I'm sure Scott or another of the editors can do so for you. I do not speak for LXer. I'm only a registered user, like you, but such language is inappropriate here. |
| Scott_Ruecker Dec 20, 2008 12:12 PM EDT |
machiner: I deleted your post, if you don't know why I am not going to tell you. I say try it again, without the curse words. |
| azerthoth Dec 20, 2008 12:14 PM EDT |
+1 If that was the quality of your journalistic efforts for your college article the reaction you described was understated. |
| Scott_Ruecker Dec 20, 2008 12:19 PM EDT |
I hope that thing was not up for long, I just got up and got on LXer minutes ago. I am sorry. |
| jdixon Dec 20, 2008 2:44 PM EDT |
> I just got up and got on LXer minutes ago. I am sorry. Don't worry about it, Scott. You have to sleep some time. |
| Scott_Ruecker Dec 20, 2008 2:50 PM EDT |
Sleep is for Humans, and I am something far more fantastic and mundane...wait a second...that doesn't make any sense.. I guess I am Human..darn it. ;-) |
| tracyanne Dec 20, 2008 4:14 PM EDT |
Quoting:I hope that thing was not up for long, It was up long enough for me to read it, last night my time. |
| hkwint Dec 20, 2008 5:33 PM EDT |
Well, I missed it anyway and thought TxtEdMacs had gone nuts talking gibberish to his illusion-only mind-friend. Reading what happened brought some relief: Right now I only think TxtEdMacs has gone nuts. |
| Scott_Ruecker Dec 20, 2008 6:16 PM EDT |
TxtEdMacs has not gone nuts, he's been nuts for some time now...lol! Trust me, I know. I could tell you why I know but then I'd have too...well you know..;-) |
| machiner Dec 20, 2008 7:38 PM EDT |
OK -- Maybe the F word was bad form (sorry) but some of you are reacting pretty harshly, and badly. lol, if you thought I was talking about you, then I guess I was. I made a couple good points but all anyone could see was a cuss. Too bad. |
| Scott_Ruecker Dec 20, 2008 8:24 PM EDT |
Please understand machiner, not being able to express yourself without cursing has never been tolerated at LXer. From long before my time here till long after I am gone, which I hope is not for a long time but still. As I said before, try it again without cursing and there will be many who take you much more seriously. |
| jdixon Dec 20, 2008 11:11 PM EDT |
> I made a couple good points but all anyone could see was a cuss. Too bad. As I said, that's not appropriate here. A single letter and a simple set of *'s would have gotten the idea across, and probably not have been a problem. |
| TxtEdMacs Dec 21, 2008 11:13 AM EDT |
Scott & Others, I think you have unintentionally done machiner a favor by deleting his post. I found the content to be obscene. The cuss word or two that did not offend me and they were in keeping with the tone and content of his message. Next time edit the offending word, but leave the message that glorified ignorance and his unqualified certitude based on zero evidence for others to judge. Ignorance is curable, stupidity is not. Absent future brain enhancements there is no hope for the latter. Therefore, the latter has become my operational assumption to evaluate any future post bearing his byline. Indeed, his self satisfied apology is indicative he has learned Nothing. Scott, if you can I request that you retrieve his post. Edit the few words and let others see the terminal vacuity that is too evident. Thanks, Txt. |
| Scott_Ruecker Dec 21, 2008 2:02 PM EDT |
Sorry guys and gals once I hit delete, its gone and there's no coming back. |
| tuxchick Dec 21, 2008 2:51 PM EDT |
LXer and LWN are my two models of successful news sites with great reader communities and discussions. This doesn't happen by accident-- like it or not, it requires leadership, rules, and enforcing the rules. Over at Brand X I inherited a bit of a mess-- there were some long-time trolls and chronic sourpusses that nobody had ever bothered to rein in, and the TOS was not enforced. So I had to put on my bad-cop hat, turbo-charge the delete button, and make a few "shape up or ship out" posts. Since then the overall tone has improved a lot and I'm seeing some new names showing up in the talkbacks. It doesn't take many bad actors to chase people away and leave you stuck with a little in-group of flamers that nobody else wants to play with. |
| dinotrac Dec 21, 2008 8:50 PM EDT |
TC - Good for you. But whatcha goin' to do if I get time to go back? |
| tuxchick Dec 21, 2008 9:17 PM EDT |
Such a short memory, dino. I already told you your personal microphone is waiting for you whenever you want it. Of course given current economic conditions I can't guarantee it will be turned on. Current economic conditions, yeah, that's it. |
| dinotrac Dec 21, 2008 9:56 PM EDT |
>Current economic conditions, yeah, that's it. BTW -- Have you met my wife, Elizabeth Taylor -- the YOUNG Elizabeth Taylor? |
| Scott_Ruecker Dec 21, 2008 10:47 PM EDT |
Thank You Carla, you mentioning us in the same breath as LWN I take as a high compliment. And you are right, it does not happen by accident. I know there are those here who have not thought kindly of me at one time or another because of my forum policing. But the end result is that which you see before you. Forums that are inclusive, not exclusive. Free of off topic tirades, hate, good ole' fashon TOS violations and of course vulgarities. ;-) In essence forums that make you want to participate, not stay away. Still, is there anyone here who can send me back in time about a week or so with some lightning bolts in my hands? I got something I really really want to take care of with them..;-) |
| jdixon Dec 21, 2008 11:21 PM EDT |
> Free of off topic tirades, Now, tirades I'm willing to grant, but being off topic is hardly a rarity here. :) Of course, in that regard, I'm at least one of the primary culprits, so.... |
| tuxchick Dec 21, 2008 11:34 PM EDT |
Quoting: BTW -- Have you met my wife, Elizabeth Taylor -- the YOUNG Elizabeth Taylor? Yes I have, dino, she is making a movie with my husband, the Young Skinny Elvis. |
| Scott_Ruecker Dec 21, 2008 11:48 PM EDT |
Yeah, I guess your right about the off topic stuff jdixon. It sounded great when I typed it though.. |
| beirwin Dec 22, 2008 7:13 PM EDT |
Thanks, Carla, for giving the trolls and other obnoxious posters on LT the heave-ho. It's made a huge difference to the quality and tone of the discussion. In the past I was a regular reader of LT, but left for LXer when it first went "on the air". I signed up for an account on LXer, but chose not to reveal that I was a woman because of past experiences elsewhere. Happily this was an unnecessary precaution. From the get-go I was comfortable participating at LWN. So bottom line: LWN and LXer have the best discussion forums, with LT making fast tracks to join this august company. FYI, Carla, I'm now a regular reader of LT. Barbara |
| bigg Dec 23, 2008 10:54 AM EDT |
> chose not to reveal that I was a woman because of past experiences elsewhere There's just something beautiful about being anonymous, isn't there? I've been called a coward (not here) because I post anonymously. In my opinion my identity should be irrelevant. Evaluate my arguments for what they are, not based on my skin color, education, income, or resume. |
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